It’s frustrating that women’s rights still seems forced to tightrope a razor wire between ever-fluidly-defined “feminism” and “progressive misogyny.” And it seems to be a struggle waged primarily on the battlefield of popular culture.
If the argument was ten best pictures, there should be ten directors it would be stronger imo. No one is saying who shouldn’t have been nominated so Greta was.
There is also a specific group that feel any negativity towards something they like is misogynistic. Barbie, Taylor Swift etc and it takes away from when actual misogynistic things are said.
It isn’t misogynistic that Margot wasn’t nominated in a category of all women.
Unpopular opinion- Celine Song and Greta Lee are bigger snubs. Past Lives was beautiful.
I’d argue that more people talk about the times something wasn’t nominated or didn’t win than a lot of the things that did win. Stanley Kubrick, Glenn Close, Amy Adams all have zero Oscars. Gene Kelly got nothing for “Singin' in the Rain.” Crash beating Brokeback Mountain is embarrassing if you watch them both now.
Also Barbie benefited from extreme levels of PR and using well known IP. Even people who don’t see a lot of movies saw it. So that can also make it seem like more of a snub. But its billion dollar box office is going to help more than an award. If Iron Claw or Origins came out at different times or had any campaigning they’d likely be seen as bigger snubs. Or May December being a “just a Netflix movie.”
I know the strikes interrupted a lot of promotion, but Barbenheimer didn’t need to be a one time thing. Purp Fiction could have taken off and people rush out to see The Color Purple and American Fiction together.
Also “good acting” can get overlooked by “a lot of acting.” Greta Lee in Past Lives, Charles Melton in May December for example. She was nominated, but even Viola Davis in Doubt . So subtle and nuanced it gets overlooked compared to a prosthetic or a beautiful person being “so brave” they wear makeup to make them less attractive. Or just crying for 2 hours.
I appreciate your cynicism! (Though I always admire good crying, what can I say.) You're making great rational points, but they're rational points -- I didn't want to make a case for or against any nominations here. I just wanted to think about the fans and their hearts, and how the heart wants what it wants when you feel so committed to the property. And I honor that commitment. It's beautiful. I'm not going to dismiss the love for Barbie as a factor of marketing and PR.
I am cynical lol. And I actually liked Barbie and was surprised they were not nominated. And it was fun to debate something meaningless for once. But then some of the comments got weird - like the LA Times shading Lily Gladstone’s historic nom by implying Barbie needed more mass murder to be considered. Bizarre way to change the narrative of how you just fired 100s of your staff.
You are so right that when the criticism is of something that reflects our beliefs and identities that it IS personal. When you only see yourself represented in one thing and that one thing doesn’t get recognition, it feels like you are not being recognized, that you are not being seen and valued. And I think that feels especially true for some right now because of the way women’s rights are being so attached politically. We just want to be seen and respected and valued. Shouldn’t be that hard.
That's a great point that it's not just this movie that is resonating, it's this movie at this particular point in time when things feel awful. But that stat about the freshman film trifecta? I thought that was an incredible sign of progress. It's all around us.
LOVE this! Very well written and oh so true! It's frustrating that the premise of the movie is how women are treated differently in the world. AND this happens! UGH! 🤦🏼♀️
Thank you! And that irony seems to be the theme of this week's discussions for sure. But...were women actually treated differently here because they're women? Or did stronger contenders win out in a subjective contest?
The New Yorker published a column today about how the Oscars don’t know what to do with a big splashy fan, favorite film like that. I don’t know if I agree with that specifically, but I think there’s some evidence that it’s a bit of an outlier in terms of what usually wins Oscars. While it’s a different genre than trad winners, I really think there are a lot of parallels with Black Panther.
I cannot even tell you how often Billy Crystal’s line about Barbra Streisand’s movie directing itself is in my head. I just realized, that’s my Roman Empire!
I read an illuminating article in either NY Mag or the NY Times about the make up of the Oscar's voting body. The Best Director category is STILL dominated by white men and it is skewing slightly more international these days which is why Poor Things is also nominated for Best Director (rightfully so, it was a great movie). There are, I think, less than 600 people elligible to vote in Best Director category. So...like a lot of radio stations in the 70's when radio stations would only play one "female band" an hour, there's only room for one female director. Apparently.
I just came on to mention a survey referred to in Forbes last month which sent AI generated treatments for review and found:
a) men and women generally agreed on the quality of proposals apparently submitted by males;
b) men and women gave lower marks to the same proposals if attributed to a female;
c) men marked female proposals even lower than women; and,
d) one third of male respondents gave the lowest possible score to ANY synopsis written by a ‘woman’.
This skewing against female artistic endeavour is apparently consonant with voting patterns seen on the reviewing websites.
It is not just a few incels, this unfairness has real world consequences for women and girls and is endemic.
Women won’t get to tell their stories if things continue as they are.
If an auteur as talented and impressive as Gerwig is put back in her box, what hope for the rest of us.
The disgrace of the Oscars snubs is the message that it sent to women and girls: you won’t be rewarded, you’ll always be lesser.
This is not the same as your favourite sports team losing. If the Academy response to Barbie did little else, it sent a clear message of rejection to girls and women and a warning to the men who work with them.
Thank you for sharing this. I can’t say for sure what went on behind the scenes of the Oscars; but I know similar studies around women’s writing as the survey you mention, and I would love to find it. We actually have some family lore around this!
Well written piece.
It’s frustrating that women’s rights still seems forced to tightrope a razor wire between ever-fluidly-defined “feminism” and “progressive misogyny.” And it seems to be a struggle waged primarily on the battlefield of popular culture.
Bingo!
I came here to thank you for the knowledge that Babs crimped her hair just like the rest of us.
She’s our people.
People who need people! (You left the door wide open for that one, Liz. 🤣
If the argument was ten best pictures, there should be ten directors it would be stronger imo. No one is saying who shouldn’t have been nominated so Greta was.
There is also a specific group that feel any negativity towards something they like is misogynistic. Barbie, Taylor Swift etc and it takes away from when actual misogynistic things are said.
It isn’t misogynistic that Margot wasn’t nominated in a category of all women.
Unpopular opinion- Celine Song and Greta Lee are bigger snubs. Past Lives was beautiful.
Also the Oscars aren’t that serious.
I appreciate your points! Oscars change careers for sure, but they're not everything. Anyone still talk about "The Artist?"
I’d argue that more people talk about the times something wasn’t nominated or didn’t win than a lot of the things that did win. Stanley Kubrick, Glenn Close, Amy Adams all have zero Oscars. Gene Kelly got nothing for “Singin' in the Rain.” Crash beating Brokeback Mountain is embarrassing if you watch them both now.
Also Barbie benefited from extreme levels of PR and using well known IP. Even people who don’t see a lot of movies saw it. So that can also make it seem like more of a snub. But its billion dollar box office is going to help more than an award. If Iron Claw or Origins came out at different times or had any campaigning they’d likely be seen as bigger snubs. Or May December being a “just a Netflix movie.”
I know the strikes interrupted a lot of promotion, but Barbenheimer didn’t need to be a one time thing. Purp Fiction could have taken off and people rush out to see The Color Purple and American Fiction together.
Also “good acting” can get overlooked by “a lot of acting.” Greta Lee in Past Lives, Charles Melton in May December for example. She was nominated, but even Viola Davis in Doubt . So subtle and nuanced it gets overlooked compared to a prosthetic or a beautiful person being “so brave” they wear makeup to make them less attractive. Or just crying for 2 hours.
I appreciate your cynicism! (Though I always admire good crying, what can I say.) You're making great rational points, but they're rational points -- I didn't want to make a case for or against any nominations here. I just wanted to think about the fans and their hearts, and how the heart wants what it wants when you feel so committed to the property. And I honor that commitment. It's beautiful. I'm not going to dismiss the love for Barbie as a factor of marketing and PR.
(PS how did I miss "purp fiction"- genius)
I am cynical lol. And I actually liked Barbie and was surprised they were not nominated. And it was fun to debate something meaningless for once. But then some of the comments got weird - like the LA Times shading Lily Gladstone’s historic nom by implying Barbie needed more mass murder to be considered. Bizarre way to change the narrative of how you just fired 100s of your staff.
💯💯💯💯💯
You are so right that when the criticism is of something that reflects our beliefs and identities that it IS personal. When you only see yourself represented in one thing and that one thing doesn’t get recognition, it feels like you are not being recognized, that you are not being seen and valued. And I think that feels especially true for some right now because of the way women’s rights are being so attached politically. We just want to be seen and respected and valued. Shouldn’t be that hard.
That's a great point that it's not just this movie that is resonating, it's this movie at this particular point in time when things feel awful. But that stat about the freshman film trifecta? I thought that was an incredible sign of progress. It's all around us.
LOVE this! Very well written and oh so true! It's frustrating that the premise of the movie is how women are treated differently in the world. AND this happens! UGH! 🤦🏼♀️
Thank you! And that irony seems to be the theme of this week's discussions for sure. But...were women actually treated differently here because they're women? Or did stronger contenders win out in a subjective contest?
Loved your opinion. I wonder if I’m the only woman who wouldn’t put Barbie in my top 20.
You're not. That doesn't make you wrong or make them wrong.
I haven’t even seen it!
Barbie being tucked into Adapted Screenplay is a serious headscratcher for me.
The New Yorker published a column today about how the Oscars don’t know what to do with a big splashy fan, favorite film like that. I don’t know if I agree with that specifically, but I think there’s some evidence that it’s a bit of an outlier in terms of what usually wins Oscars. While it’s a different genre than trad winners, I really think there are a lot of parallels with Black Panther.
It sure was fun seeing that gem of an opening monologue by Billy Crystal. It was such a treat when he hosted.
I cannot even tell you how often Billy Crystal’s line about Barbra Streisand’s movie directing itself is in my head. I just realized, that’s my Roman Empire!
I read an illuminating article in either NY Mag or the NY Times about the make up of the Oscar's voting body. The Best Director category is STILL dominated by white men and it is skewing slightly more international these days which is why Poor Things is also nominated for Best Director (rightfully so, it was a great movie). There are, I think, less than 600 people elligible to vote in Best Director category. So...like a lot of radio stations in the 70's when radio stations would only play one "female band" an hour, there's only room for one female director. Apparently.
I will look for that, thank you.
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/23/movies/greta-gerwig-barbie-oscar-snub.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare
I just came on to mention a survey referred to in Forbes last month which sent AI generated treatments for review and found:
a) men and women generally agreed on the quality of proposals apparently submitted by males;
b) men and women gave lower marks to the same proposals if attributed to a female;
c) men marked female proposals even lower than women; and,
d) one third of male respondents gave the lowest possible score to ANY synopsis written by a ‘woman’.
This skewing against female artistic endeavour is apparently consonant with voting patterns seen on the reviewing websites.
It is not just a few incels, this unfairness has real world consequences for women and girls and is endemic.
Women won’t get to tell their stories if things continue as they are.
If an auteur as talented and impressive as Gerwig is put back in her box, what hope for the rest of us.
The disgrace of the Oscars snubs is the message that it sent to women and girls: you won’t be rewarded, you’ll always be lesser.
This is not the same as your favourite sports team losing. If the Academy response to Barbie did little else, it sent a clear message of rejection to girls and women and a warning to the men who work with them.
Thank you for sharing this. I can’t say for sure what went on behind the scenes of the Oscars; but I know similar studies around women’s writing as the survey you mention, and I would love to find it. We actually have some family lore around this!